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 Size Differential
 
 5/1/2006 7:36:54 AM
User is offlineJeannette
176 posts
2nd


Size Differential
 Modified By Jeannette on 5/1/2006 6:42:03 AM)

forwarded...
Dear Ref Doctor,

Centering at a local tournament...7 and under colored belts...boys.
There was a yng man at the tournament in this group who was considerably larger than the other boys. Tournament was having a hard time finding a match for him, parents didn't want him fighting older boys his size.  By age he belonged in the 7 and under group...I was asked to please fit him in.


His match showed up in the middle of the bracket. There was such a size disparity I was on the point of
canceling the match, but the coach of the smaller competitor insisted that his player was ready to go...everyone was ok with it, so I decided to give them a chance and watch very closely ready to stop and cancel at any time.

The smaller player turned out to be quicker and more aggressive. The larger young man had to be a foot taller...he was using his size and body weight to push the smaller fighter around the ring...I warned him, and then kyungoed him for it. While
being pushed backward, the little guy extended his open hands against his competitors hogoo...pushed off while being pushed backward, and scored several times with double kicks. I did not warn him or kyungo him for pushing as I felt
he was reacting to being pushed and also he did not displace his competitor by a push in the slightest, quite the opposite. The little guy was getting his kicks up to the other player's hogoo and getting enough power and accuracy to warrant earning points for it. The larger player's first few kicks were low, the little guy was taking a beating on his lower legs... I warned for low kicks, and then followed with a kyungo for repeated acts.

The larger young man seemed amused and admiring of the fight in the tiny player and showed no desire to try to hit
him very hard...he seemed like a "gentle giant" and a very nice young man. The small competitor won the match. It was all fairly tame, and I in no way felt either competitor was in any danger, although I stayed close and monitored intently.

Just before the end of the match, the coach of the larger player got very upset and raised his hand. I stopped the match and listened to him...he felt that both players should have been kyungoed for pushing and that I had been unfair to his competitor. I listened to him, disagreed with him and finished the match. He jumped up several more times, repeating what he had stated before. I brought in the referee chair, and the coach repeated himself again.

The coach never was satisfied, and I thought very hard about the match...wondering if I was SO concerned for the safety of the tiny player that I was overprotective of him...but other than pushing off with his arms as he was being bulldozed backward around the ring, he fought very clean and showed no fear or hesitation.

Should I have called him for pushing? Should I have just refused to consider allowing the larger young man to compete at all on the grounds of a mismatch (non-sanctioned local tournament)?

My understanding is safety first, then fairness to both competitors, then managing the match so as to encourage clean and correct fighting according to the rules.

Should I have handled this differently?

Susan Lewis
 5/1/2006 7:53:04 AM
User is offlineJeannette
176 posts
2nd


Re: Size Differential
 Modified By Jeannette on 5/1/2006 6:58:57 AM)
Susan

I'll leave it to the Doctor to comment on your actual question.
I will comment on the situation though. My nephew had the same problem you discribe here. At 7 he was the size of a 14 year old. At 14 he is the size of a split level ranch. He is, however, just an average kid, emotionally and mentally. He ended up quitting Martial Arts because when he fought kids his size, he got scared. When he fought kids his age, he developed sloppy and lazy habits, like the bulldozing you described, and low kicks. It would have been no favor to him if he had been allowed to get away with these bad habits.

It sounds like you were backed up by the referee chair, so I think you should rest easy knowing you gave these two young men an opportunity to test their skills, while maintaning a safe environment for them.

Jenny
 5/1/2006 9:05:40 AM
User is offlinebckwh
104 posts
2nd


Re: Size Differential
Ms Lewis, first of all, welcome to the Ref Doc's Office! Thank you for bringing the situation that you recently experienced to us for discussion.

It is common to have at least one child who is either taller or heavier than the other kids in the weight class. They should also be afforded the opportunity to enjoy Taekwondo competition in a safe environment, without being put into a division of older children that may match them in size, but overpower them otherwise.

The very first thing to do, in trying to get a match for the larger child, is to find a coach that will allow their child to have a match with the larger child. Consent of both coaches is a must. You were correct and on track for doing this.

Once there is an agreement between coaches to let the children have a match, it then becomes the Referee's responsibility to enforce the competition rules fairly for both children. That means, calling all penalties fairly as they occur, without consideration for allowing the smaller player to bend the rules to his/her advantage. In this respect, the larger player's coach was correct in saying that penalties for pushing should have been assessed on the smaller player as well. In that regard, it seems that you were over-protective of the smaller player. This is a natural instinct, but should be avoided. If there was a point in time where the smaller player became over-powered, then it would have been proper to consult again with both coaches to determine whether they would agree for the match to continue. If the coaches agree to continue, then the Referee should continue to conduct the match in a fair manner for both competitors.

Final authority for stopping a match because of a perceived mismatch rests with the Referee. So, even if the coaches want the match to continue, the Referee may decide that, in the interest of safety, the match should be stopped.

All in all, it seems as though you did many things right in this situation. It also seems that both children got to enjoy a competitive match. However, the coach of the larger player was correct in saying that penalties must be assessed against the smaller player, as well as against the larger opponent. Fairness means being impartial in the assessing of penalties. The Referee should not try to "even the playing field" when one competitor is larger than the other. What is fair for one must be also fair for the other player.
~BHarris
 5/1/2006 5:42:15 PM
User is offlineGrant Marlenee
23 posts
5th


Re: Size Differential
Glad to see this question.  Out here in the hinterlands, size mismatches are very common.  It's good to get some insight.
Grant Marlenee
 5/1/2006 6:02:19 PM
User is offlinebckwh
104 posts
2nd


Re: Size Differential
The DOC is always willing to be helpful whenever there are questions that will help the health and well-being of our Referee "patients." Now, if only more referees would ask questions and take heed to answers/situations presented...
~BHarris
 5/2/2006 6:39:29 AM
User is offlineJeannette
176 posts
2nd


Re: Size Differential
 Modified By Jeannette on 5/2/2006 5:40:44 AM)

Forwarding from Susan...

Thank you Ref Doctor!
This is exactly why I questioned myself on this match.
Pushing, holding, and grabbing is so common...really seeing what you are looking at and making a confident, split-second decision correctly is the art. Understanding pushing is the question here...if  I see an obvious, displacing, open-handed push, followed by a kick that scores...I am to annul the point and give the penalty.  What about the double-fisted pushoff followed by a kick that scores...I've been told that is ok?  Any open-handed push is a push, even if it is reactive to being pushed?  What about a player that is pushing back as their competitor propells them out of the ring...pushing with the trunk vs. pushing with the open hands?  Do I give them both the pushing penalty and then penalize the one pushed out with crossing the boundary line?  Or does one cancel out the other and I should be more concerned with not overly impeding the momentum of the match?

Susan Lewis
 5/2/2006 7:09:53 AM
User is offlinebckwh
104 posts
2nd


Re: Size Differential
Ms Lewis, first of all, thank you for your return visit to the Doc. Please come back as often as you have symptoms that need addressing. Thank you also for the excellent question regarding pushing. Let me try to shed some light on this issue.

A push is a push, whether open-handed, closed-fisted, with the trunk, with the shoulders, etc. If the action displaces the opponent to gain an advantage for the pusher, the action should result in a penalty. Any point(s) gained as a result of the illegal act of pushing must be annulled.

The issue of the double-fisted push-off followed by a kick- There is a distinction between a competitor who is using the arms to measure leg distance (usually with both fists and arms extended) and then follows with a kick, and a competitor who pushes with the double-fists and arms in order to displace the opponent and to thereby gain an advantage in the attack. The former is allowable and the latter is punishable.

As far as how to handle a situation where a retaliatory push results from being pushed, the initial act of pushing should be penalized. Normally, when one competitor pushes, the other competitor reacts by grabbing and holding. It is the inital action that should be penalized. That means that a Referee must be mobile and in position to determine which act occurred first. Did the push precipitate the hold, or did the holding precipitate the push.

Consider the situation where one competitor gains an advantage of momentum through legal tactics, i.e. kicking, footwork, etc, and is forcing the opponent out of bounds, and the opponent uses the hands or trunk to push back to prevent from going out of bounds. The pusher should be warned, at the very least, and may be penalized for pushing or for crossing the boundary lines, depending on the circumstances. If, on the other hand, the competitor is forcing the opponent out of bounds by pushing with the trunk, the competitor initiating the pushing should be warned or penalized.

It has been my experience that, when a Referee takes control of a match early in the first round, there are fewer illegal acts on the part of the competitors later in the match. Perhaps this is because the Referee has established the fact that s/he will not allow illegal actions to go unpunished. Coaches teach their competitors to work the Referees. If the Referee allows you to get away with bending or breaking the rules, continue to do so until the Referee starts to enforce the rules. As a Referee, with experience you will learn how to control a match early and not have to continually interrupt the flow of the match. This experience is, of course, gained by working in the ring as a Center Referee, not from reading about it in rules books, etc.

I hope that this adds some clarity to the issue of pushing. Please come back for a follow-up visit any time!

~BHarris
 5/2/2006 9:48:13 AM
User is offlineslewis
9 posts


Re: Size Differential

Dear Ref Doctor...wonderful prescription...wow do I feel better!  Thank you for hanging up your shingle.  This is a needed and valuable forum.

Susan Lewis
 5/2/2006 9:58:42 AM
User is offlinebckwh
104 posts
2nd


Re: Size Differential
Ms Lewis, you are more than welcome. Thank you for taking the interest and time in being a Referee, and, even more important, in becoming a better Referee. Better Referees equate to selecting the best athletes to represent our country. But, beyond that, better Referees make our sport more enjoyable and fairer for our athletes and coaches, and even for the audience. Your time is an invaluable asset to Taekwondo, one that may not be fully appreciated by the powers that be and some of our participants. Hang in there and continue to improve our craft.

And, know that you are welcome in the Doctor's Office any time!
~BHarris
 5/3/2006 8:50:40 AM
User is offlineslewis
9 posts


Re: Size Differential

Your kind and encouraging words are deeply appreciated.  The goal has always been to serve and to grow.   To be useful, competent, and dependable as soon as possible, and for as long as possible.  Thank you and all of our high level referee leadership for the wonderful training, mentoring, and kindness in and out of the ring.  It is a privilege to work for you and serve with you.

Susan Lewis
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