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 Head kicks in no head kick divisions
 
 7/12/2006 5:17:13 AM
User is offlineJay Ferguson
31 posts
www.tkdringmaster.com
4th


Head kicks in no head kick divisions

Dear Ref Doctor,

At JOs one of the matches for 10-11 year olds had a player that received 3 full point deductions for head contact.  All three kicks would have been excessive contact under Junior Safety Rules.  The referee declared Shi-gan slightly before the 60 second clock expired in the first two instances.  It seems this is a violation of the intent of the "no head contact" rule.  Was it handled correctly?

jay ferguson

 7/12/2006 9:06:28 AM
User is offlineJeannette
176 posts
2nd


Re: Head kicks in no head kick divisions
While we are in the doctor's waiting room, I'll be the medical assistant and ask a couple of questions:
Do I have this correct? A competitor was kicked very hard in the head 3 times and his opponant received 3 gam-jeons?

Did the ref call Shi-gan before the kick? Why do you feel the timing of the Shi-gan is significant?
 7/12/2006 12:34:42 PM
User is offlineJay Ferguson
31 posts
www.tkdringmaster.com
4th


Re: Head kicks in no head kick divisions
 Modified By Jay Ferguson  on 7/12/2006 11:36:06 AM)

 Jeannette wrote
While we are in the doctor's waiting room, I'll be the medical assistant and ask a couple of questions:
Do I have this correct? A competitor was kicked very hard in the head 3 times and his opponant received 3 gam-jeons?

Did the ref call Shi-gan before the kick? Why do you feel the timing of the Shi-gan is significant?

Yes, kicked hard 3 times in the head.  Yes, 3 gam-jeons.

The Shi-gan was called to stop the Kye-shi from reaching 60 seconds and therefore continue the match.

jay ferguson

 7/13/2006 8:33:46 AM
User is offlineJeannette
176 posts
2nd


Re: Head kicks in no head kick divisions
Oh. now I understand your question.
 7/17/2006 11:32:14 PM
User is offlinebckwh
104 posts
2nd


Re: Head kicks in no head kick divisions
Mr. Ferguson/Ms Woodard, thank you for waiting patiently in the doctor's lounge. Hopefully you took advantage of the time to peruse some of the excellent magazines and other reading materials there.

At any rate, to the question at hand. In the situation where three Gamjeoms were given to the same competitor for kicking to the face in a "No Head Contact" match. I assume that the Referee called Kyeshi after the first two kicks in order to give a minute's injury recovery time to the competitor receiving the kicks to the face, then called Shigan to prevent the one minute time limit from expiring.

In my humble opinion, two things were wrong with the handling of this scenario. They are as follows:

1. The first kick may have been accidental and warranted a Gamjeom, but a second such occurrence would alert me to the fact that intent is established. If one believes in a "Safety First" approach from the Referee, then a DQ would have been in order immediately after the second kick to the face. It would also help to establish the tone of future matches in the "No Head Contact" divisions by showing a strict enforcement of the rules. By being lenient, a Referee is setting themselves (and other Referees) for an escalation of violence. Strict adherence to the letter of the law prevents such excalation and preserves the safety of our Taekwondo youth.

2. After the first face kick and the appendant Gamjeom and Kyeshi, if the competitor who received the face kick could not continue, the match should have ended, thus awarding the match to the competitor who received the kick.

This instance, if I understand it correctly, was definitely anot handled in the best manner for the enforcement of the "No Head Contact" rule.

~BHarris
 7/25/2006 7:35:03 AM
User is offlinevoorheestkd
16 posts
www.voorheestkd.com
5th


Re: Head kicks in no head kick divisions

With all due respect, I must disagree with the diagnosis, sir.  To directly quote the JSR, updated February of this year:

A. Ages 11 & Under Elite Open (All Belts) and Ages 11 & Under World Class Color Belt Division

1. In National Qualifier and National Junior Olympic Championships sparring

competition, the rules concerning a kick to the face shall be as follows:

a. Any technique contacted to the head area which does not make any injury,

will be given a warning by the referee (“Kyong-go”).

b. Any technique, which makes injury to the head area will result in a one-point

deduction by the referee (“Gam-jeom”).

c. If the competitor cannot continue because of the injury to the head area, the

attacker will be disqualified.

As I believe I was the Referee during the match Master Ferguson brings to the floor here, in my opinion, the first strike to the head was not intentional; however, it was powerful enough, in my opinion, to deserve a Gam-jeom.  While there was no discernible injury, it did rock the other player to the point where I asked medical to check them out.  On advice from medical, who said they believed the player could continue, I stopped the Kyeshi clock with Shigan, to allow the player to continue.  A second and third head kick also occured, with much the same result.  The receiving player, while shocked by the blow, was able to continue, and appeared as if they wished to continue, so in my opinion, the appropriate accomdation was given that player.  Had they chosen not to continue, I would have awarded the match to them; however, based on the rules that state a player who cannot continue a match due to a head injury cannot continue in the tournament, I didn't think Master Ferguson or his player wanted that to happen.  As there was no bleeding, abrasion, or other obvious injury, and the advice from medical was that the player was uninjured, I permitted the play to continue. 

Based on the rules noted above, no where does it state that I must DQ a player in this division who kicks to the head.  If I thought they were truly "head-hunting", I would have; however, in my opinion, they were simply a poorly-trained former point-fighter-turned-WTF-stylist who kept forgetting the head wasn't a supposed to be a target.  They weren't injuring the other player. Scaring them, surprising them, pissing them off, yes.  Injuring, no.

So again, I must respectfully disagree with the diagnosis, Herr Doktor.  According to the published rules, and in my pervue as Referee, this was a Field of Play decision which I made, in my opinion, in keeping with the spirit of the rules, and the intent of the player to continue the match. 

However, if I am reading this rule incorrectly, I would greatly appreciate any further insights.

--Larry Voorhees

 7/28/2006 10:56:53 AM
User is offlinevincentlo
16 posts
5th


Re: Head kicks in no head kick divisions
Master Voorhees,

You quoted that in the no-head-contact divisions, the rules state that any technique which "makes injury to the head area will result in a one-point deduction," i.e. a Gam-jeom. But you also stated that in the ring you were refereeing, the player being kicked repeatedly in the head had no obvious injuries. I have noticed that most of us will indeed give Gam-jeoms in the no-head-contact divisions once we deem the head kick hard enough, even if there are no obvious injuries (and the player has been cleared by the medical staff). Is this going against the written rules (Gam-jeon when there's injury)?

Vincent Lo
 8/6/2006 2:00:18 AM
User is offlinebckwh
104 posts
2nd


Re: Head kicks in no head kick divisions
Mr. Voorhees,

You are absolutely correct in your response that the rules do not state that a Referee MUST DQ a competitor for repeated kicks to the head. However, in the interest of promoting a safe contest environment for all contestants (especially in that one ring area), one might make the determination that, by allowing repeated face kicks, the power of those kicks will escalate to the point of getting out of control. I have always believed that a proactive approach to the safety of child competitors is preferred rather than being cloaked in the "right of the rule" which allows a Referee to penalize after a child has been injured. Safety is still the most important aspect of the Referee's job. Child safety, in my humble opinion, while important for all, is even more important than safety of adults.

So, in this case, though I understand that you did what the letter of the law states, I still would have disqualified the player for not following the Referee's directions. To me, the second kick to the face would have been enough to establish "head-hunter" intent on the part of that athlete. Even if that player was simply awkward and poorly trained, that is no reason for the safety of the other competitor to be put at risk.

On this matter, we can agree to disagree. I will always err on the side of the safety of a competitor, rather than waiting for a serious injury to occur before calling a disqualification. Not only that, but other coaches and players feed off what they see being allowed in a ring. The level of contact always escalates if free rein is given to competitors to kick to the face. To some, it will mean that the Face Kick rule is not being enforced in that ring, or lightly enforced, at best. By being strict about face contact, not only do we protect our child athletes, but we also keep a safe competition environment in that ring area. If all rings operated that way, all rings would be sage havens for controlled competition.

~BHarris
 8/6/2006 5:32:53 AM
User is offlineJay Ferguson
31 posts
www.tkdringmaster.com
4th


Re: Head kicks in no head kick divisions
 voorheestkd wrote

As I believe I was the Referee during the match Master Ferguson brings to the floor here, in my opinion, the first strike to the head was not intentional; however, it was powerful enough, in my opinion, to deserve a Gam-jeom. 

Just to clarify, it was not my fighter nor was Master Voorhees the center during the match in question. 

jay ferguson

 8/6/2006 5:37:14 AM
User is offlineJay Ferguson
31 posts
www.tkdringmaster.com
4th


Re: Head kicks in no head kick divisions

 bckwh wrote
Not only that, but other coaches and players feed off what they see being allowed in a ring. The level of contact always escalates if free rein is given to competitors to kick to the face. To some, it will mean that the Face Kick rule is not being enforced in that ring, or lightly enforced, at best. By being strict about face contact, not only do we protect our child athletes, but we also keep a safe competition environment in that ring area. If all rings operated that way, all rings would be sage havens for controlled competition.

in fact, this is exactly what happened... in the 3rd round the other player started to retaliate and kicked his opponent hard in the hard... what was suppose to be a no head contact fight turned into a full contact black belt match... if i recall correctly the player continued his actions in the two matches and was finally disqualified in the 3rd round...

jay ferguson

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